The wonder years can be great, of course: first love, long summers, panoramic dreams exclusive to those with a lifetime of track. The working years, too: established identity, new family and old friends, freedom to pursue personal goals and professional satisfaction.
Ken Kiura of the University of Nebraska–Lincoln just doesn’t want you to forget about the years of wisdom. They got their name from the famous psychologist Erik Erikson, who roughly defined them as starting at age 65, often considered the retirement mile in the United States. But while Erikson saw the wisdom years as bathed in twilight—a period of reflection on a life lived that is ready to be filtered through the lens of regret or satisfaction—Kievra and others have come to see those years less as the end of the road. , more like a ramp for others.
Kievra, a professor of educational psychology, has spent much of his career studying the cultivation of talent and the productivity of those who possess it. While teaching a course on creativity and talent development, Kiura and two of his students, Jessica Walsh and Chris Labenz, first considered researching wisdom years through a series of interviews with people who made the most of them. With the support of the university’s Center for Transformative Learning, they would do just that.
Some of those interviewed—Husker volleyball coach John Cook, journalist Judy Woodruff—kept their early passions well into later life. Others, including a trio known as the Wander Women, have decided to radically reorient their lives just as some are beginning to consider termination.
These in-depth interviews, and the life lessons of wisdom the team would later distill from them, are detailed in an article recently published in Educational Psychology Review. Kiewra sat down with Nebraska Today to talk about the importance of lifelong pursuits, the value of pursuing bliss and the best ways to acknowledge aging without worshiping it.
How did this research come about? What prompted you to interview, as you put it in the paper, “those who eschew conventional retirement and continue to produce meaningful work”?
I had done a number of studies on talent – looking at prodigious talent in all sorts of fields and in particular the roles that parents play in its development. I had also done research on productive scientists and what makes them so productive. So we were kind of looking for a new entry point.
As I progress in my career and into my own years of wisdom, I’ve been curious about what I can do as I approach retirement. Do I want to go to the pasture? Or do I want to stay productive? What have others done? What are the productivity success stories over the years of wisdom? So that was the impetus for studying this.
How did you decide who to interview?
We chose Judy Woodruff, who is one of the highest-ranking people in the news world, because one of our co-authors, Jessica Walsh, is interested in journalism. Rich Meyer is perhaps the greatest educational psychologist on the planet. This is my field and Chris Labenz’s field, so he was an obvious choice, and I had interviewed him for other research on productive scientists. John Cook: We’re all Nebraska volleyball fans and he’s had an amazing career. You probably couldn’t find a more successful coach anywhere to interview, so he was a good and easy choice.
At the time we were formulating the research, we had read about Nancy Shank, who was a professor and administrator here at the University of Nebraska, who had changed careers, going from the professorial ranks to being a playwright. And we were really interested in that because it was such an abrupt departure — to essentially leave your day job and go in a completely different and unpaid direction. So she was an important and interesting choice.
Who better than John Rosenow, who wrote a book about the wisdom years and who, at age 21, had founded the Arbor Day Foundation? And he’s local. So he was a great choice.
And the last one actually came from my daughter, who is a dedicated naturalist and hiker. She knew well three adventurers, known as the Wandering Women, who literally quit their jobs, sold their possessions, and set out to discover America on foot on these incredible treks thousands of miles across the American wilderness. So we just had to talk to them and we were so grateful that they took time out on the trail to talk to us.
Your interviews provided many lessons on how to stay productive and find meaning in later life. What are some of the lessons that particularly resonated with you?
One was that none of these people wanted to retire. And if they were going to retire, they were going to retire to something, no from something. They all acknowledged that you don’t want to just stop doing your life’s work and then wonder what’s next.
Another lesson is: Follow your bliss. All of these people have spent their entire careers doing things they love. Their labor was filled with love, as if they had never gone to work. And whether they stayed or veered off course, they truly followed their bliss. For example, Nancy Shank loved her job at the university, but there was something greater calling to her. She had this desire, this need, this passion to create, to write – to write a play, to write a novel. So she was someone who certainly followed her bliss. Who better than Rich Meyer to embody this? Years ago, Meyer could have retired from his position at the university with full salary — and still continue to work for the same salary. How many of us would do that? But his opinion is: “Why should I retire? I love what I’m doing. I am curious about the things I investigate. There is nothing I would rather do.”
I don’t believe these people live to work. I think they saw their work as joyful, playful. The psychologist Howard Gardner is famous for studying creative people – extraordinary, extraordinary creators – and they all had this kind of childlike perspective, this childlike joy in what they were doing. This is what I saw, time and time again, with those we interviewed: incredible passion, bliss. It wasn’t work for them.
Were you surprised by what the interviewees said?
Maybe I’m not surprised because I’ve seen it happen among other talented people I’ve studied, but there was a bit of serendipity, a touch of luck, or the idea that the universe conspired, if you will, to make something happen. Perhaps the best example involves the Tramp women who went to a financial advisor to map out the rest of their lives and their finances – and were told that in a few years, in their 70s, they could finally retire. They then leave that meeting with financial numbers and pie charts spinning in their heads. They go to a small cafe and there, on a shelf, they notice a book about changing the nature and direction of your life. They open the book and the first line is “Quit your job.” What if they don’t go to that cafe? What if they don’t see this book? Where are they now? Are they still in their self-described mildly satisfying jobs? Probably so. Think of all the experiences and all the lives they might have missed out on if they came across or were somehow directed to this book.
It just seems that every time I interview someone with talent, there’s always one or two intersecting points in their lives where, barring something serendipitous, almost mysterious, they might never have gone in a certain direction. I just find this fascinating. Now, the other part of this, of course, is that people always have options and they always have choices. The choices they make will actually define them and the life they live. Wanderers could see this book and choose to ignore it. But they didn’t.
It seems that American society often focuses on youth – especially how to keep looking and feeling young. How do you think this study can contribute to the discourse surrounding youth and aging?
All the Wisdom Years people recognized their vulnerability, saying things like, “I’m a little worried about my memory. Now I have to hold the railing. I had to change my routine and sleep more and exercise.”They all recognized the frailties of life and aging, but still found ways to counteract or reduce it. Meyer, for example, now uses a monthly paper calendar to record appointments and long-term goals, a yellow pad to list weekly goals and plans, and sticky notes to signal what she plans to accomplish that day.
These people were deliberate and intentional about how they would remain productive despite the frailties of aging. And I believe there really is a message there for all of us. Because we all have barriers, whether it’s aging or something else. To succeed, we must compensate. We have to overcome, go under, get over or around our barriers. That’s what these people did. Despite physical and mental limitations, they persevered. They were not deterred. They continue to produce.
And production can seemingly continue in physical areas as well. The Wander Women are 70 years old and still doing treks of 2,000 miles or more. When asked about their physical limitations, they said, “Maybe you used to run a six-minute mile and now you’re running a 12-minute mile. Okay, so what? A 12 minute mile is still good. It still gets you where you want to go. It’s still healthy. It’s still fun.” I imagine former elite athletes probably feel the same way. Although their talents have eroded, they can continue to play and enjoy their sport at some level.
How do you think you could apply these lessons to your own life?
I am 68 years old and considering official retirement. But I love what I do, it’s my bliss, and I’m likely to continue writing and producing in my retirement years. It’s just that some of this writing is likely to fall outside of educational psychology.
Whatever directions and projects I pursue, I am inspired and guided by the people of Wisdom Years, who happily continue to produce at high levels and seemingly slow down the aging clock.