Finding a place in esports, diversifying & a trip down memory lane

Photo Credit: PGL

In this long-awaited fourth interview from Tom Taylor’s visit to the PGL Antwerp Major, he had the pleasure of talking to British esports host and interviewer Freya Spiers about how she came to work in esports, and later on, for Faceit, where she also works as an assistant producer.

Freya discussed the best ways for new talent to find their place in the industry, future-proofing, the ambitions of ESL Impact, and lots more from her journey in esports so far.

Freya Spiers on becoming an esports broadcast talent

What was your background before getting into esports, and what made you decide that interviewing, hosting and esports-based work is what you wanted to do?

Well, it was a mixture of right place, right time, taking opportunities and saying yes, and also 50% knowing that I wanted to be in esports in some capacity. So, I was at university doing English Literature and I was just going to sports events for fun. It was just, like, a part time thing, you know, playing a lot of Counter-Strike at home and being terrible at it and then just going to the Majors, going to ECSs, going to Cologne, that was one I would always go to.

And seeing that and saying, ‘I want to be in that in some capacity’, probably in producing or event management or something like that, because I’ve never been in front of the camera before. I didn’t do drama or public speaking, I was quite a shy, not-super-outspoken child, and so it wasn’t really a path I ever thought was possible in terms of doing that on-camera work.

And then I just started to do interviews for fun with a couple of my friends, started a website, again for fun, which we thought would be a good base for if you wanted to do anything in the future. Doing something you enjoy and taking it and making it into something you could show future employers, and just make it something you own, and I just carried on doing that for a while.

Then I saw that Faceit had a competition to win a trip to ECS Season 4, which was in Cancun – it was the first ever event they didn’t have a crowd for in terms of ECS, so it was a really, really fucking cool idea. An event right at the end of the year that all the players could just chill out at, you’re on a beach in Cancun, you’re loving life, there’s no crowds to worry about, it’s just pure Counter-Strike and chilling out before Christmas. Very smart idea!

So, they were like, let’s have somebody who can relay the event to the fans, so do videos, recorded interview pieces, written content… just someone who can do everything to make sure the fans are getting the best experience they can, even if they’re not there. And so I entered that, did my video, themed it on Mexico, even went to a Mexican birthday party… I can’t believe that’s still up on the internet!

But, yeah, I ended up doing that video for the ECS Season 4 Competition and I didn’t win it because Boaster, who we all now know and love through Valorant, he did a song. And when I saw that, I was like, ‘well shit, I’ve definitely lost’. It was amazing and he fully deserved that, and he knew the players as well through some personal connections and he did an incredible job.

Then Faceit contacted me almost immediately after Christmas of 2017, so moving into 2018 when I was in my final year of university and about to graduate in a couple of months. They asked me if I wanted to do some voiceovers and interviews for the regular season of ECS online, and obviously I said yes! I was not expecting it to be paid, but it ended up being paid which was incredible, especially for a student just working in retail, working in TopShop, RIP now.

But when they offered that, I sprung to it and dedicated a lot of time to that, and it was an awesome opportunity that then became even more awesome. Everybody knows ECS and that the odd number seasons are always in London.

So with ECS Season 5, Mike Bembenek, now the director of content at Faceit, and Reece Fowler, who is a producer, contacted me and asked if I wanted to become a stage host there. Do I want to come to the studio and do I want to audition? And I said: ‘Yes! 100% yes!’

So, I went to the studios, which have since moved but were in South West London, and did a few run-throughs of a script, did a couple of different takes of stuff.

Mike and Reece were leading me through, getting me to read off of a sheet, because I’d never done public speaking before, but just: ‘Read it off a sheet, get your emphasis right and then pretend that there’s cameras around different points of the room’ [is what they told me].

We spent just a few hours with me going through all of that, which was really awesome, and then, just dove headfirst from that into ECS Season 5.

At ECS Season 5, I got to do the day intros, live interviews, pre-game interviews with players, and Pala was working there as well doing the post-game interviews. And he was a really great person to bounce off of as well because he’s so spontaneous and obviously had great, friendly connections with the players, and he is friends with a lot of them. So, that was a really great introduction and there was a great team there as well. So that’s kind of how… it wasn’t intentional in the sense that I wasn’t always looking towards being an esports talent.

I didn’t even think I had the capability to do that until I saw Sue ‘Smix’ Lee. I was at a DreamHack event that she was hosting, and one of my friends turned to me, and Smix was the only female on the whole broadcast. This was maybe in 2015, but my friend turned to me and was like: ‘You could do that! There’s another girl there, you could do it.’

And I was like: ‘No way, absolutely no way!’

So, it was a bit of a weird full circle when I got to work with her in 2019 at the last ECS in London. That’s the event that I miss the most. They were incredible events! Especially just at London events, right? The crowds are so sick in London.

But, yeah, getting back to the point, [becoming an esports talent] wasn’t intentional. As much as I would have looked at that role and said, ‘I would adore that, but there’s no way I would have the capability to do it’, it was literally saying yes to the right opportunities and pushing myself towards things that made me feel uncomfortable, but in a good way.

When you’re outside your comfort zone, that’s when you’re learning and developing. And, also, having a really solid group of people around me, that would support me and wouldn’t just put me out there and go, ‘okay we found someone’, but they worked through and developed things with me as well. I’m super grateful for that as I wouldn’t be here without them.

The Next Generation of Talents

With ECS no longer existing, how big of a loss is this is this for broadcast talent, as ECS was really the only tier 1 broadcaster with audition spots for up-and-comers?

It’s funny because Hawka and Dinko came through the Community Caster Challenge as well, which was really awesome. I think that was a really great thing at the time, and it was a super linear way for people to get [noticed], and I think that discovering so much talent every single season was the reason Faceit was doing it.

It was amazing to go through the audition tapes when I joined Faceit full time and just look at everybody who was putting it out there… I mean CodyCasts is another guy who managed to come through it, Voo too!

Everybody that’s come out of it has been stellar, and it gave me a real appreciation for the depth of Counter-Strike talent that don’t make it to the big screen as well, and how much time and energy people are putting in on their own YouTube and Twitch channels, not getting any viewers but just casting games and being incredibly skilled. So, I think that it is a loss to the scene, but simultaneously, I also think that in esports… it’s a ‘could’ve, would’ve, should’ve mentality’ which makes people lose out.

I could have done this, I would have done this, I should have done this, should all be ‘I did it’, and even if it’s terrible, at least you tried, you know? At least there’s some evidence and somebody can pick you up and go, ‘ok, we’re going to shift you into this position and we’re going to help you’, which is something that Faceit is still doing, which is awesome.

Obviously, we’re expanding out into a few other titles, like we had PUBG a few years ago, and then Halo is another thing that’s coming through as well, Rainbow Six Siege too, and that’s been a really cool opportunity for me personally, not doing any on-camera talent stuff but actually just exploring another esport and learning a bit more about that.

There’s also other, bigger talent out there like Thorin, who famously had Mauisnake as his analyst, and so Maui came through that and actually discovered he would be really good to have in front of a camera, which he did at Flashpoint. Actually, I think it might have been Epicenter first and Flashpoint came a few months later. So, I think there’s always roots if you’re just ready to put in the work and show that you’re dedicated enough, even if you don’t have the best setup, even if you don’t have the best quality equipment.

There is always going to be somebody out there that will notice your dedication to the craft, which I guess mine was slightly different in the sense that somebody didn’t just stumble across my work, but when I did make that audition tape for the competition, they then went back and researched and went, ‘she’s not just doing this because she wants a trip to Cancun, she’s doing this because she really likes Counter-Strike and here’s some evidence that she’s been to these events before’.

I think it’s a sense of finding your way into things and finding something that you love, something new that you can bring to the table, your unique selling point.

Diversifying in esports and future-proofing a career

You’ve echoed the sentiment of James Banks in saying that there are plenty of opportunities out there, but how important is it to diversify yourself in esports? Should you try and work across multiple games to maximise your chance of getting an opportunity, or should you just be focusing on perfecting your craft in one?

Okay, I’m going to take a bit of a pivot in this. Because I just play Counter-Strike and that’s what I’m devoted to, that’s why I haven’t really ventured out into many other games. What I’ve done in terms of diversifying my own career is working behind the scenes too. I do production at Faceit, which has allowed me to do a Gucci collaboration with Faceit, which is going to be super exciting.

It’s something I’ve been working on for a really, really long time, since the Stockholm Major, which gives me… you know, when you’re done with a broadcast, a lot of people talk about post-event blues and I definitely suffer with that, so it’s great to come back and have another purpose for being in the space and having a reason to keep going. And I think that’s very important for me when I’m looking at my future. I do see that there’s probably an age limitation to hosting, and I’m not saying that it’s agist at all, it’s more, just, the lifestyle, it’s travel heavy, the one meal a day…

I want to keep doing this for as long as I can, but I think I’m realistic in that sometimes you’re going to need a pivot in your career path and I think it’s important to be able to have a broader set of skills, which right now I also enjoy doing to as it makes me a better host, and both complement each other very well. I’ve been trying to do a lot more set design at Faceit which actually included a lot of Rainbow Six stuff at the last Mexico Major.

Doing a lot of set design for that was really awesome, also there’s going to be a couple more events for Faceit coming out in August particularly, and there’s a lot more set design that’s gone into that, because as a host, I know what bugs me on a set, I know what bugs me on a desk. I love how it looks when you’re in the middle, but I kinda hate it, because I can’t have a conversation with both of the analysts.

But that’s where, in terms of diversifying, I really respect people like Frankie Ward, who can do such an eclectic mix of games and be such an expert in all of them. Like, I was speaking to her about Dota this morning, and the LEC stuff, it’s awesome! When she was doing that with Machine for League of Legends, I was like that is such a cool experience, but I just don’t know personally whether I have the confidence to chew at that yet.

I think it also takes time because Frankie is a freelancer, so, she can say she’s going to work this game and then play it for a week or so, whereas because I’ve chosen a slightly different path, I wouldn’t be able to do that, and that’s just how you’re using your time and that’s nothing to do with either of us.

So, I think that’s the diversifying that I’ve chosen, which I guess is sort of similar to what Banks has been doing, because he’s done a lot of management stuff and James Banks worked with Bad News Eagles, which is awesome, and he did the stuff with Allied too. I mean, most people have it, right?

SpunJ does HLTV stuff as well, Moses has also been doing the HLTV recaps, Anders has SkyBox, like, there’s always something else you can bring as a talent to other areas of esports, which I think is important for elevating a product. I don’t want to turn up, or, I prefer if I can turn up to a product or show that I’ve had some input in beforehand. So a lot of tournament organisers now will have pre-production meetings, which is amazing because we can have some input by saying these are the kind of graphics we want, this is the kind of story we want to tell, here’s some input on the content which is great.

I can tell you all had a lot of input on the content this time around, even impressing with the small touches like the real graffiti of the PGL Logo that you had commissioned.

It’s really cool, and especially with the graphics for here as well, here and Blast are excellent for that. We have a group chat where we just put any ideas for graphics and they’ll make something out of it.

And even if… there was a game a while ago, the Nip vs Furia game, and there was a shit-ton of utility used in that and it was like, ‘right, can we make a utility graphic?’

They were really honest and said, ‘you’ve told us too late, we don’t have the time but we can give you all of the stats’, so we just talked about them on the desk and it was nice to have that kind of flow with production as well.

Well, even today, looking at the outer screens of the stage, it was talked about on the quarter-finals day how it would be great to have the bigger player pictures on display and it just happened overnight.

Yes, that’s so funny. When I came out, it was just, like, why is there this waste of space where it’s just a logo but instantly, it was like, ‘nope’ [and it was rectified].

I mean, that was a good change and you can tell that PGL has been listening to criticism, especially coming from the last event where there was a lack of content and too much of a focus placed on 4K video quality, but how much input were you able to have on the studio side of things in terms of design?

Nothing for PGL, since I work fulltime for Faceit/ESL Group now, but PGL have a large team of designers, and I think their set is excellent. It’s the first time that I’ve had a separate analyst/desk host position, which actually translates very well on the broadcast too.

The Faceit-ESL Merger, New Possibilities and What’s the Deal with Flashpoint?

Looking at the merger between Faceit and ESL, how big of an impact is this going to have on the scene and what sort of an impact will it have on you working at Faceit?

It’s interesting, it all came as quite a surprise and it came out of nowhere for most people, but it’s definitely going to be interesting in terms of merging resources if you will, because obviously ESL have a bigger foothold in the events and Faceit have a bigger foothold in terms of platform. So, now it’s a really interesting conversation of trying to tie in lots of FPL stories and FPL-C stories. Because, particularly with ESL Pro League, there’s a shit-ton of teams there, and a lot of those guys come through FPL, so actually being able to pull statistics from that, tell the stories, do interviews, create more content from that, create more assets – that’s a really exciting part of it.

In terms of day-to-day, the merger officially happened only a few months ago so nothing there has changed, it’s just, in terms of, because I work for the media division of Faceit, which in the UK is only about eight of us, probably about eight also in the US, but they actually have a dedicated studio there, which has been cool because they did a couple of Rocket League tournaments there and they plan on using it more in the future as well.

Is that the one they used for Flashpoint?

Yes, that was the Flashpoint Studio. Man, that was nuts because we went there for Flashpoint 1 and it was still a building site because we’d just moved in, and all the studio elements worked and looked amazing but everything else was still being built, and in terms of the office space and the meeting rooms… But when I went there for Flashpoint 3, totally different.

Also, fun fact, if you like The Office US, they used to film the first season there, so you can see out the windows sometimes and you’ll have the view of the basketball scene where Michael is trying to throw the ball backwards. Yeah, that’s filmed in the Flashpoint Studio, which is awesome.

Well, that’s a nice crossover episode. Hey, next content piece for Faceit maybe?

Exactly! When we were out there I said we’ve got to do something Office-themed. But, yeah, just in terms of day-to-day, nothing much has changed other than there’s just a hell of a lot more people to talk to in terms of contacts now, a lot more resources to be shared.

It’s also been really awesome to reconnect with some old people as well, particularly from DreamHack as the first freelance event I did was for Dreamhack Open. Unfortunately, it’s no longer in existence, but they’ve kept a lot of the team and the crew from there, so that’s the first messages I was getting, people from Dreamhack saying, ‘oh my god, we’re colleagues now!’

So, I am excited to see what the future holds in an aspect and I think a lot of people share that same excitement as well.

One of the things I think that Flashpoint has always gotten right was the design of the set and the graphics, but obviously there’s been a fair few hiccups with the Flashpoint events. Is Flashpoint still planning on making a return, even with only one or two of the partner teams still in existence?

I’m unsure. I haven’t heard anything that would allow me to say yes or no basically. Sorry I can’t really give you a proper answer on that. It’s more that, just, the calendar space is very hard to come by now, particularly with the Majors returning as well, that kind of freed up a bit of space to put on more events. But obviously Blast has expanded since then, ESL, and we’re obviously now a part of that, but they’ve got a lot more events going on, so I’m sorry I can’t give you a better answer.

Aspirations of ESL Impact

Then let’s move on to ESL Impact. What are its future plans looking like?

Well, I’m not really involved with it to be totally honest as it sort of happened before the merger, but I would like to join in on it in the future because I think it is important. Right now, as much as there’s a lot of talk about, ‘should there be female only events? Should there not be female only events?’, I think it’s very important for the female scene in its current state. That’s because it takes a generation to be able to change a scene in terms of, if you speak to a lot of the players here on the big stage, they’ve been playing since they were five, six, seven years old, because their big brothers introduced it to them. I mean m0nesy, he was literally seven, you know?

I think it’s important to try and make a girl’s scene forming from a young age, and I’m interested in this myself because I didn’t start playing Counter-Strike until I was 16 and I didn’t start playing online multiplayer games until I was 14 or 15. Not saying that I had any hope of being a pro, because I am not naturally apt enough for that.

So, we’re not going to be seeing you playing in Impact?

You know what, I’d love to maybe join in a showmatch, maybe that could work. But I think it’s important in the scene’s current state to have these female-only tournaments, I don’t think it’s something that’s negative. I think in the future, Impact should aspire towards having women make it to mixed tournaments but I just think if I’m being totally honest, in its current state, there just isn’t that width in the pool of female players to allow for that.

I think that depth comes from having more exposure and making females more aware, then subsequently getting women interested from a younger age and being able to develop at the same rate as males. It’s hard to say, but I think it’s just a longer-term plan than maybe people would like, if that makes sense?

In the immediate aftermath, I agree that the initiative is great at it’s brought so many orgs back into female CS with your Navi Javelins and Furia Female, but now it’s just about improving the quality of talent as well.

And I think it’s definitely important to have those options if you do just want to compete in female only tournaments, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that in the scene’s current state. I’m all for equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome, and equality of opportunity is what it should be but I think that’s where at the moment that opportunity is not totally equal across the board, because there’s still people that think that video games are a boy’s thing.

I think until that’s gone away, then we’ll have a similar level… I mean here maybe is a positively bad example of saying ‘how many women are there?’ because this is the event where I’ve seen the most females, but the first event I did, and the events I was attending when I was at Cologne or ECS were hugely male. That’s not a problem, there’s nothing negative about that, it’s more just going, take that size audience, what percentage of those males would have the ability to make it pro? It’s tiny. Then take the percentage of those that are female, it’s even smaller. So, it is no surprise that we do see that kind of lag in terms of female talent, and I think ESL Impact is very important for that.

A (Very) Brief Look at UK CSGO

So, just to wrap things up, what do you think leading UK CSGO teams such as Into the Breach and EKO need to do to break into the European scene properly?

You know what, I think the issue is that the UK scene keeps getting picked at, almost. There are talents that come out, throwing it back a bit but dephh is a huge example of that but they’re obviously now doing Valorant stuff, a perfect example. But him moving over to Complexity where it was amazing at the London Major to have two UK players on totally different teams, that was really unique and something I don’t think anybody saw happening.

Although speaking to friends who are more familiar with the UK scene than I am, just having the mentality of staying together and building something as a team, rather than being tempted by some of those international offers, which obviously is hard to resist when you see players like dephh, like Smooya or Alex and mezii, all these guys, because I feel like the appeal of international rosters right now are huge. I mean we’re potentially going to see an international roster lifting a Major trophy tomorrow, which would be awesome.

A Trip Down Memory Lane – Exchanging Stories, Potential Plans for Faceit & Revisiting London Events

I mean, looking back through your work, the effort you put into your interviews before you started working in the industry is truly admirable, and I actually found your old website on the wayback machine…

Oh god, which one?

TopMid? But I am now curious about which other websites I can find…

Ok, no, good, TopMid is fine! That’s so funny. Years ago, when I was in sixth form, so, about 2012?

Actually, I’ll tell you what, I accidentally found your A-Level photography too on your Instagram.

Oh Jesus Christ, oh no! Yeah, all you have to do is scroll back through it. I was such an Instagram girl saying, ‘it’s all for photography, I’m not posting selfies’, and then cut to 2022, it’s totally different. Yeah, I did it, I had a YouTube channel with a few friends where we just played Minecraft.

I love Minecraft, it’s, like, a real guilty pleasure. We just used to do challenges where we would build stuff, and a survival series… I’m glad you didn’t find that one. That was interesting.

Well, I’m writing it down and if we do get to chat again, I’ll see if I can bring the footage with me. I mean maybe you could become a host for Minecraft Hunger Games?

Oh, no, don’t – that was my favourite thing! I loved Hunger Games. I was so into watching AntVenom and all those guys, like, I would watch that till five in the morning and then go to school at seven.

Can we pitch this to Faceit? Minecraft Hunger Games?

Yes, yes, we need to do this, a hundred percent! That’s happening.

I mean, Danger Zone’s a bit dead but Minecraft Hunger Games would be the revival that everyone needs. Now, I’ll be honest, I think I had the most fun researching for your interview because of the crazy stuff that you have on your YouTube and Twitch. You’ve got Human Fall Flat content, Noclip Nuke Fun… there’s some great videos still up there

Oh my god, the Nuke noclip! That was at, like, three in the morning when I still lived with my parents. That’s when I’d be there saying the classic, ‘Oh my god! Guys! Guys!’

I mean, if people don’t know, if you noclip under Nuke there is a miniature of the outside of the map to minimise making the frame-rate shit if you were looking outside. That’s exactly what the purpose is for it, and if you walk around, it and throw nades and molotovs, you come up big on the outside of the map – you should definitely go and do that, after you finish reading this interview of course.

And yes! Human Fall Flat! City Skylines as well, that was something else I did that I found there was a very niche audience for and people just wanted stuff.

Referring back to London events, were you at Blast Premier 2019?

No, I wasn’t, did you go to that?

I did go to that, yeah.

I mean the studio looked sick!

Yeah, the studio was very cool and I sat right across from kennyS as he was playing on stage, I loved it.

It reminded me of, like, Dreamhack Open events, actually, where you used to be able to get really close the stage. I remember there was one in London in the, I guess it was the Badminton Arena? The Copperbox from the Olympics. And just being in the front row of that, man, it was awesome getting in such close contact.

On the topic of happenings at London events, Cody is still upset he didn’t get to cast the showmatch at ECS Season 7.

Yeah, that was kinda heartbreaking. Did he come out to Season 8? I can’t remember, but he’s gone on to do some really cool things and he’s doing lots of qualifiers so he’s got a good road ahead of him, definitely.

I enjoyed his Starladder stuff too, especially when, I think it was K23, tried to throw an Awp out of the map on Overpass but it landed straight on the opposition. That’s a great clip. Actually, talking of ECS, please can Faceit bring it back?

Oh, I would love to! Oh my god, so, you know the old ECS logo, the one that basically looked like the Copenhagen Flames one?

I have a power adaptor that has the old ECS Flame on it, and every time I bring it out, because it’s a European power adaptor, everyone is like, ‘oh, you’ve got a Copenhagen Flames power adaptor’. and I’m just, like, ‘no! Why weren’t you watching ECS Season 1, man?’

So, yeah, I would like to bring ECS back, let’s do that. Let’s make a petition.

Fun story, you know at ECS Season 7 they were throwing merch into the crowd? I jumped over two rows of seats to catch one of the Mousesports-signed caps and I was very lucky not to shatter my ribcage.

Was it worth it?

Absolutely, I’ve since started collecting them.

I mean, mine was going to be as unique as that.

So, we’ve got Minecraft Hunger Games and we’ve got ECS?

Sounds like a plan.

In the meantime…

Since this interview was completed, Freya has gone on to work two further S-Tier events, the Blast Premier Spring Finals and IEM Cologne, as a desk host and interviewer in Counter-Strike, with another locked in for later this month as she’ll be returning to her post in the Blast Premier Fall Groups.

She has also just finished working as a stage host for the inaugural Commonwealth Esports Championships, marking her first significant on-camera role outside of the CSGO esport scene.

Follow Freya Spiera on Twitter @FreyaSpiers.