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eElon Musk, TIME’s 2021 Person of the Year, already has a reach that extends beyond Earth. The controversial billionaire, who runs both Tesla and SpaceX, has plans for what he calls a “futuristic Noah’s Ark.”
But that doesn’t mean he only focused on the interplanetary. During an interview with TIME at his facility in Boca Chica, Texas, on Dec. 3, Musk discussed his wealth, the electric vehicle market, SpaceX and the latest on his relationship with Grimes.
TIME’s Kluger, left, interviews Musk; two starships loom in the background
Here are excerpts from Musk’s interview, edited for clarity.
Of being the richest man in the world
“Well, I think there are some, you know, sovereigns. I think [Russia’s] President Putin is considerably richer than I am. I can’t invade countries and stuff.
On income inequality
“When we look at the distribution of income and assets, it’s very important to normalize it for age. So as societies age, there are more elderly people; the older someone is, the richer they are. But much of the push for more government involvement and government expropriation of assets is being pushed by a group of politicians who are basically saying that resources should not be controlled by private individuals. They must control the government.
Being a “Utopian Anarchist”
“If there is a utopia in which people have access to any goods or services they desire, there is enough for everyone. If we have a highly automated future with robots that can do everything, then every job you do will be because you want to do it, not because you have to do it. I don’t mean to suggest chaos, but rather that you are not under anyone’s thumb.
Tesla’s rating
“I just tried to temper expectations by saying I thought the stock was maybe too high. The current valuation is quite high, which suggests the market has faith in the company’s future performance because it’s certainly not based on historical profitability, that’s for sure.”
Competition in the electric vehicle market
“If someone makes better cars than us and then sells more cars than us, I think that’s perfectly fine. Our intention with Tesla has always been to serve as an example to the auto industry and hope that they also make electric cars so that we can accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.
Mark Zuckerberg’s leadership
“I’m more concerned about the fact that Facebook, now Meta, has a capital structure that makes it such that his great-great-grandchildren will still control the company. Share structures that give super voting rights should be abolished.
Overconfidence at SpaceX
“If we have ships and boosters but no engines, we’re going to lose billions of dollars a quarter.” And if this continues, bankruptcy would not be out of the question. I feel like we’ve had many years of success and a lot of people in the company have never seen a startup fail. Many people have never been in a recession in their careers. If one entered the workforce after 2009, it just seemed like things were always on the upswing. I was concerned that we might start to get complacent.
In cryptocurrency
“I don’t really hate fiat like many in the crypto world. But there are advantages to crypto over fiat currency as fiat currency tends to be diluted by any government. In the end, this turns out to be a disastrous tax on people, especially those who have cash savings with a dilution of the money supply. I could talk about the nature of money for hours because I was instrumental in creating PayPal. Very few people understand [the money system] better than me.”
His tweets
“I’m not really trying to do brand optimization. So sometimes I obviously shoot myself in the foot. As is evident from my tweets, they are humor that I find funny, but not many other people find it funny.”
His love and relationship with musician Grimes
“Grimes and I, I would say, are probably semi-separated. Her job takes her to different places compared to my job. So we haven’t seen each other that much because what she has to do is mostly in LA or on tour and my work is mostly in remote places like this. I am human and all; I’m not a robot, but this place is basically a techno monastery.
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