What we can learn from the ‘sages of aging’

While working on his memoir Radical Curiosity a few years ago, Ken Dichtwald, founder and CEO of research and consulting firm Age Wave, had an idea. What if he could film interviews with a dozen pioneers in the field of aging to share their wisdom, insights, and lessons learned about aging?

So, in partnership with the American Society on Aging, Dychtwald set out to do just that.

The interviews first appeared as a 12-part podcast series, which you can watch or listen to on the American Society on Aging website, or read excerpts in the Generations Now section of that site. The interviews will air on over 200 PBS stations this fall.

Inside the book The Sages of Aging.

Dychtwald and Age Wave President Elise Pellman have now compiled the interviews into a book, The Sages of Aging. It’s kind of Tuesdays with Maury at 12. Mitch Albom’s bestselling author Maury dispenses wisdom he’s gleaned over time from a former college professor.

The 12 wise men in Dichtwald and Pellman’s book are all in their 60s, 70s, and 80s; nine are Next Avenue Influencers in Aging. They include three former US Assistant Secretaries on Aging: Fernando Torres-Gil, Cathy Greenlee and Jeanette Takamura; Encore.org Co-CEO Mark Friedman; Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health Dean Linda Freed; Founder of Mary’s House for Seniors Imani Woody; International Association of Gerontology and Geriatrics President Dr. John “Jack” Rowe and Larry Curley, Executive Director of the National Indian Council on Aging.

I recently interviewed Dichtwald about what these sages told him. He said that when he interviewed them, “I felt that I was at the feet of the masters.”

After reading the book, I wished I had conducted similar “inheritance” interviews with my parents before they died. Dychtwald hopes that readers of the book – if they can – will have such conversations with their parents, recording the interviews for future generations and using the list of questions he created for this purpose.

The following are highlights from my conversation with Dychtwald about what he took away from The Sages interviews:

Next Avenue: What made you take on this project?

Ken Dichtwald: I thought there are some spectacular pioneers in this field today who have been doing it for 30, 40, 50, 60 years. I wanted to interview people who were the founders of this modern field, and I wanted diversity in perspective, gender, sexuality, and skill.

The idea was to capture their views and perspectives: What worked? What not? What advice would you give for the future of this field? And who are you as a person?

So every Wednesday my assistant Robyn would come over and we would set up my cameras and my brain would be blown.

Hard work but little to show for it

I have done such “legacy experiences” with my mother and father. And I also photographed my grandmother when I was 27. My grandmother was a very rural woman. She had grown up an orphan, never had money, never wore makeup. And I showed up with my little roll-to-roll video camera, and she had lipstick on and her hair was all combed. And I said, “Grandma, you look great.” She said, “Well, you’re making a movie of my life.” And she did appear.

These 12 people – they showed up.

Did you hear a thread from the sages about the state of aging and aging in America today?

Well, that was the light and the dark. On the one hand, they felt very proud of the work that so many people were trying so hard to do to help seniors live with comfort, health, dignity, connection and purpose.

But they largely feel that their work has been ineffective overall. There was a general feeling that they had not been as effective in creating change, in combating ageism, in generating interest and attention in their field as they thought they would be.

I would also tell you that they were, to my surprise, quite critical of the very field they had created. For example, everyone thought that organizing a field around aging was a mistake.

Why?

First, they thought the word “aging” was the wrong word. They thought he carried a certain set of baggage with him. They like the word “longevity”; longevity was more encouraging.

And they thought that organizing people into groups was a mistake. You know, “You’re 65, you’re a senior.” None of them wanted to be called “senior”. They didn’t like anything about the language they had a hand in shaping.

Mark Friedman talks about how we have created “age apartheid” through the creation of retirement communities.

Fernando Torres-Gil, who is responsible for creating much of our aging and disability policies, thinks they have all been done wrong. That what you have are – in his words – special interest groups dealing with loneliness or brain health or food.

So they build an organization and get policies to support it. And what you have is a spaghetti ball of programs that are impossible to understand. Fernando said that living in LA, even he couldn’t figure out what programs would work for him.

Improvement spiritually and emotionally

One of my favorite questions in the book was, “Do you think of your personal aging as an uphill climb or a downhill climb?”

What I heard pretty consistently was that physically they were trying to manage the descent. That it was clearly getting harder and harder. “I can’t run anymore, so I walk. “I’m in pain 24 hours a day; I have to deal with it.” “I used to kayak; now my kayak is sitting in the garage.”

So, physically, it’s not like they’ve fallen off the edge of the shelf, but it’s a descent that they’re trying to contain as best they can.

Spiritually and emotionally? Each of them: Straight uphill. They feel more caring, better, more dedicated, more enriched, wiser.

What struck me as I listened to them was that one of their greatest strengths was their incredible clarity of mind.

What does ageism look like today?

What have you heard from the sages about ageism?

Cathy Greenlee said the worst kind of ageism is when you don’t ask for something from someone.

We have a billion people in the world over the age of 60 and we haven’t burdened them with anything. We think we gave them a break by saying, “You’re done. You are free. Have fun. Have fun.”

But what was pointed out to me was that by not giving these people anything meaningful to engage with, this is a kind of ageism that is perhaps even more pernicious than poor portrayals of older people in advertising.

Kathy pointed out that some people in the field of aging feel that older people are disenfranchised, that they are vulnerable and “I have to protect them.” And what we’re missing is: First, it doesn’t empower the elderly.

Second, there are many older people who are not vulnerable or frail. Their eyesight may not be as good as it used to be, or they may not be able to run a mile as fast as they might once have tried, but they are still extraordinary individuals.

And by viewing them all as a wounded, needy group, you may be contributing to the problem rather than correcting it.

Provide opportunities to do more

Kathy Greenlee also said that we need to ask older people to do more and provide opportunities for them to do so. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that.

I told the sages, “Over the past decade, the average American retiree watched 47 hours of television a week, and only 24 percent of retirees volunteered. Are you okay with that?”

Everyone said, “It’s wrong.”

Fernando was talking about maybe we need a service corps.

In general, there was a feeling among the Sages that creating a world where so many elderly people lived without social purpose was not a good thing.

And older adults would benefit from contributing more; it would put them in the flow of things. This will guide them towards modern technologies. This would make them meet new people and make new friends. This will bring them out of their isolation and give them a chance to share their wisdom.

Teach people how to age?

Were there any policy recommendations from the sages that you thought were really interesting or really important to make a reality?

Jack Rowe believed that aging should be taught. We have laws and states that require sex education in high school. He suggested that we should have age education… How do you feel about the idea that you might have a hundred year life? How do you consider the financial, health and social events that lie ahead?

The sooner we start, the better.

Did the Wise Men consider themselves retired or did they want to retire?

I said to them: Do you consider yourself retired? “No.” Do you want to retire? “No. I’d like to work less. I don’t want the pressure. I want a little more freedom.” They were still very much in the game.

They didn’t think full retirement was productive, useful, or the right thing for people to do in their later years.