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Margaret Alva says she “settled down in Bengaluru” when opposition parties approached her and asked her to step in while they looked for an acceptable vice-presidential candidate. The 81-year-old former Union Minister and Governor spoke to Manoj CG a week before the elections:
You were in a semi-retirement phase. What made you accept the opposition’s demand, given that the numbers were incredibly stacked against you?
It’s not a matter of winning or losing. It is about presenting an alternative point of view, (for) which 19 parties have united. They all agreed on one name.
Who spoke to you first?
Everything I don’t discuss in the press. These were the leaders of the opposition. There was a meeting at (NCP leader) Sharad Pawar’s house. All the leaders were there.
Have you taken a moment to think about it?
I took a few days. I consulted with my family members.
The Vice President is also the Speaker of the Rajya Sabha. How do you envision that role, especially given the way the House is run now?
I was in the Rajya Sabha for 24 years. I also presided over the Rajya Sabha as well as the Lok Sabha… We had staunch supporters in the Presidency, in the House. From (AB) Vajpayee to Bhupesh Gupta, Annadurai, Chandra Shekhar, Mohan Dharia, (IK) Gujral… There was a constellation of leaders… There were differences of opinion with Mrs. (Indira) Gandhi… We saw the powerful speak, differ, to debate and then came to an amicable end. Parliament is not, after all, a majority and a minority. Parliament is about debate, discussion and consensus building. There are problems all over the country. MPs come so they can talk. Where is the debate taking place now?
… There is a total collapse … It is the job of the Speaker to call the leaders of all parties, to make the government and the opposition understand each other … Everywhere, I spoke to MPs. They are frustrated… There are so many issues that people are worried about… That’s why there is so much frustration out there.
What explains the government’s position in parliament?
This is arrogance of numbers. They think they can do anything because they have the numbers… OK, you vote and pass bills, but there has to be a discussion.
On your Twitter feed, there is a 34-year-old photo of your son Nivedith with you and Mamata Banerjee watching a cricket match between MPs. You and Mamata Banerjee have known each other for a long time. Were you surprised when the TMC decided not to support you? Did you talk to her before or after?
We are still very good friends. Elections are about mutual persuasion. There might have been little ego issues, someone not being consulted… I won’t go into that. I mean she has been a champion of opposition unity. She was the one who suffered the most under (Governor Jagdeep) Dankhar in West Bengal. She is the one challenging the BJP at every stage. And today to be instrumental in helping Dhankhar become Vice President, if I may say so, horrified me. I know there is pressure, threats, all kinds of fear being instilled by the government… (But) Mamata is brave enough. She has faced them all these years… I don’t think she can be scared… In this election you can’t crack a whip, then how can you crack a whip not to vote (for me)?
Did you talk to her?
Yes, we communicate, we talk to people. Let’s see what happens. There’s still time until next Saturday.
Opposition unity is largely confined to parliament. Outside, everyone is fighting their own battle.
Look, this is a different political debate, it has nothing to do with this election. Yes, there are battles for space in every state. Congress is a national party, (there is) conflict with regional parties in the states. But methods of cooperation and joint work are being developed. I’d say it’s the 2024 semi-final.
Almost all opposition parties believe that it is the Congress that should take the decision. What ails the party?
I am not a member of Congress now. I fight as an independent. So I don’t keep a brief on any party. But I am just saying that in Rajasthan Congress has a government. In Madhya Pradesh, the Congress won. What did the BJP do?
But do you think something is hurting Congress? You’ve seen the party over the years…
Yes, we saw (the party) after 1977, then after 1989 (when it won after being suspended)… There is nothing permanent in politics. There are ups and downs.
The parties managed to defeat the BJP in the states. So why doesn’t the opposition narrative work at the national level? What do you think explains Narendra Modi’s electoral success after 8 years?
I don’t know, I don’t have an answer to that.
After your candidacy was announced, there was talk of your book that came out in 2016, interviews you gave then, critical of the leadership of Congress.
Sorry, I’m not going to get into a discussion about my book.
Did Sonia Gandhi speak to you afterwards? How would you define the equations between you and her?
Nothing has changed. She wasn’t worried about it. I gave her the first copy.
Do you agree that the opposition lacked imagination in choosing Yashwant Sinha as its presidential candidate, especially after the government chose Draupadi Murmu?
It was a very good decision, everyone supported it. The first woman from the tribe (to be president). I am also very happy about it.
But the opposition elected Sinha and now you. You are not new faces, you are legacy leaders.
Listen, we (UPA) also gave the country first scheduled caste president (KR Naryanan), first woman president (Pratibha Patil). We have given a minority president, a Sikh (Giani Zail Singh) and a Muslim (Zakir Hussain, Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed). Every community in the past has been placed for these posts. And now you have tribal. We are very happy. It’s not like you’re the only one who rear-ended…
I’m talking about the present. There is no freshness in the opposition candidates.
What is fresh in Dhankhar? I was a governor, he was a governor. He was in Congress, I was in Congress. He then shifted to different parties… So what is so special about Dhankhar? Murmuji, I said, we are very glad. Many people from Congress also voted for her.
You worked with Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi and PV Narasimha Rao as Prime Ministers and later with Sonia and Rahul Gandhi. What are the differences in their functioning style?
Politics is changing. The answers should be tailored to the situation and the problems facing the political parties. There was a huge growth of regional parties, regional interests. So the politics of only national parties no longer exists… So I cannot compare someone in the 1960s with someone in 2020… The issues, the demands of the people (have changed), education has spread, there is awareness , the media…
Some of your contemporaries in Congress like Ghulam Nabi Azad wrote a letter in 2020 expressing reservations about the way the party is being run. What is your view?
That is the beauty of Congress. You can write and express your opinion. Can you do it in BJP? Can you do it in other parties? Congress has always been an open book. People differ, people criticize, people leave and people come back… So many of my friends are now in different parties. But when I talk to them, they are still emotionally attached to the Congress. None of these new parties… dropped (the word) Congress… Trinamool Congress., (Tamil) Manila Congress.
But are the leaders’ concerns well-founded? You were in Congress until a month ago.
What they think is their point of view. Why should I comment on their thinking?
BJP is going to elections with a brand name. Modi brand. This is a personalized and presidential campaign. What is the opposition’s response?
My election campaign has nothing to do with this. I have taken up issues that affect Parliament, the governance of Parliament, democratic functioning, freedom of speech, freedom of debate.
But what is the opposition’s response to Brand Modi?
I have no answers. We fight our way, they fight their way. Perceptions are different and change… Today people are angry, tomorrow they are fine…
As you head into 2024, the opposition may find a face. I am nobody to say so.
Are you hoping to get votes from outside the opposition basket?
yes I have many individual relationships. I watched the North East after 1975. I have personal relations with parties, people. I am contacting everyone for support. I’m saying there are bigger issues in this VP election. We say the time for change is now.
The opposition often says that the prime minister rarely comes to the parliament… Does this show a lack of seriousness towards the parliament?
I’m not saying that, I’m not going to judge anyone. It is for him to see how he does and for his government… All I can say is that the smooth functioning of parliament requires government and opposition to come together.
Finally, do you think Rahul should take over as Congress president?
Party members decide. We will have an AICC session… If there is anyone else, there will be a contest. We’ve had it before. Rajesh Pilot stood up, Jitendra Prasada stood up.
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