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Jennifer Lawrence isn’t one to scare easily, but she’s a wreck when she meets Viola Davis. “This is the greatest honor of my life,” she says, before paying her a heartfelt compliment. “Your performance in ‘Fences’ changed my life,” she says of Davis’ Oscar-winning role opposite Denzel Washington.
Over the past decade, Lawrence and Davis have changed the face of movies, each in their own way. Today, however, when they gather to talk about their craft, they realize how much they share. From stories about the highs and lows of motherhood to embracing an industry that believes male actors are a more valuable commodity at the box office, Davis and Lawrence are pioneers who stand at the top of their field.
This year, both actors return to the awards conversation in passion projects that they also produced. With The Woman King, Davies “did weight training five hours a day, six days a week, for three months at 56” to play Naniska, the leader of a band of soldiers in 1823 West Africa. For Lawrence, Causeway, in which she plays Lynsey, a soldier who returns home to New Orleans after a traumatic brain injury, represents a return to her indie roots.
Jennifer Lawrence: I think Woman King is the best movie I’ve seen this year, hands down, and the best movie I’ve seen in a long time. I heard an interesting story about how it came to be with you.
Viola Davis Maria Bello presented me with an award at the Skirball Institute. And instead of pitching it traditionally, she pitched the idea for this film she’d written an adaptation for and shopped around town. She said, “Wouldn’t everyone like to see Viola in The King Woman?” Everyone cheered. They stood up. And I remember that was the moment when I thought, “Sit down. It’s just never going to happen.”
Alexi Lubomirsky for Variety
Lawrence: And why did you think that?
Davis: What I have going for me is that I’m a black actress. And I understand how people feel about that. I don’t see it as an obstacle. But when have I seen anything like “Woman King,” not just with me in it, but with anyone who looks like me in it? Which studio is going to put money behind this? How will they be convinced that black women can lead a global box office? So, yeah, I said, “That’s not going to happen because you can’t see it.”
And listen, it’s great to sit with you. Because in a way I see us as the same type of actresses. We don’t look alike, I know that.
Lawrence: I don’t feel worthy to be in the same room with you, but please go ahead.
Davis: But I feel that what you bring to your performances is exactly what an actor should bring, which is life. Which is the depth of the human experience, the minutiae of it, the joy of it, the tragedy of it, the paradox and contradiction in every moment. And that’s what you have to do as an actress. Yes, there is a technical aspect to acting. But with you I see that. And I think that’s why people are drawn to you. And I think that’s why people are moved by your performances.
Lawrence: Goodbye! I want to come back to you as the “Woman King”. I remember when I was making The Hunger Games, nobody had ever put a woman in the lead role in an action movie because it wouldn’t work – because we were told that both girls and boys could identify with the male lead, but boys they can’t with a female lead. And it just makes me so happy every time I see a movie come out that just blows away all those beliefs and proves that it’s just a lie to keep certain people out of movies. To keep certain people in the same positions they’ve always been in.
Davis: But how do you feel about making the bigger marquee films?
Lawrence: When I was doing X-Men, it was hard not to have that perception of the movie, which is like, “Oh, well, it’s just one of those.” Especially when you’re painted blue with scales on your face. If you start thinking, “I look ridiculous, I feel ridiculous,” you have nowhere to go.
In The Hunger Games, that was a great responsibility. These books were huge and I knew the audience was children. I remember the biggest conversation was, “How much weight are you going to lose?” Along with being young and growing and not being able to diet, I don’t know if I want all the girls who are going to dress up like Katniss to feel like they can’t because they are not sure weight. And I can’t let that seep through mine brain too.
Davis: I want to know how much of the business has seeped into your love of work.
Lawrence: I’ve been doing this since I was so young. When The Hunger Games came out, I couldn’t be an observer of life because everyone was watching me. I could feel my craft suffering. And I didn’t know how to fix it. I rushed around trying to fix it by saying yes. this movie and then tries to counter it with that movie. And without realizing that what I had to do was no movies until something spoke to me.
When I read Causeway, I didn’t trust myself—I didn’t trust my antenna. I had lost so much of what I once felt was instinctive. And the problem with instincts is that it’s not a method you can go back to.
Alexi Lubomirsky for Variety
Davis: It’s interesting, especially what you say about instincts—that they don’t always work. But I have to say that business is probably one of the biggest offenders of my love for work. Because I don’t feel like I fit into the business.
Lawrence: You went to Juilliard. Or it was Is it Juilliard?
Davis: Yes, Juilliard. Or should I say prison yard?
Lawrence: The prison yard!
Davis: With Juilliard, it was all about technical skills. It was about giving you all the building blocks to transform for classic work. The only problem with that is, first of all, I can safely say for you and myself that nobody wants to watch a play or a movie and look at the technical skills; you want a human experience. You want to feel less alone. They don’t get to that.
When you rehearse at Juilliard, they have a pencil teacher who follows you through the rehearsal and puts the pencil in your mouth to see where your tongue is positioned. So when it becomes like that and you leave yourself and your soul behind, you are not an artist.
And on top of that, it is Eurocentric training. So when you study all these classics, it’s clear what all these characters look like – and it’s not me. Then what should I do with myself? What should I do with my Blackness? What should I do with my deep voice and wide nose?
Lawrence: It’s interesting that you imply that you’re not beautiful when I’m sitting next to someone who is handsome and has a full mouth and a strong jaw and big, beautiful eyes and is tall and lean.
In my experience, the biggest obstacle to my craft is the press, doing interviews. Every time I do an interview, I think, “I can’t do this to myself again.” I really can’t. I’m always very aware of my intelligence because I didn’t finish school. I dropped out of high school.
Davis: You are very articulate.
Alexi Lubomirsky for Variety
Lawrence: Thank you. And you are very beautiful.
Davis: Thank you.
Lawrence: I don’t want anyone to know, either i think they know what i am like I must be a mirror. I must be a judge. You shouldn’t look at me and remember that I got married in Rhode Island a few years ago and that my husband is an art dealer. I feel like I lose so much control of my craft every time I have to do press for a film, and I do sale that – especially something like “Causeway” that just felt so personal.
Davis: I want to know about Causeway. I want to know what drew you to the story, to the character.
Lawrence: I think in dealing with childhood trauma, living with it as an adult, not being able to just get rid of it and not being able to take a pill and make it go away, or have a good therapy session and make it go away. … I mean that I am not at all a hero who risks his life to save his country; i’m an actor But when I read Causeway, even though the situations couldn’t be more different, the idea of carrying this invisible injury and knowing that healing isn’t linear — there’s so much progress and then there’s a step back. And she has this very complicated relationship with home. I too had a beautiful childhood. I also had parents who loved me as much as they could and did the best they could. This is also true.
And I think we can tear this story apart and I can add some things that if I can see another person going through this and I can empathize with Linsey, then I can begin to understand how I might feel self-compassion. And so it was really such a healing process.
I think that’s why it’s still so hard for me to understand that people like it – even that they do movie — because it’s been so personal for so long that it’s just weird to talk about. [Tears up]
Davis: It has to be personal. Listen, everything we do as actors is helping people feel less alone. We now live in a world where we are so disconnected from ourselves that we cannot connect with other people. And that’s because everyone commits fraud. I mean, everyone! I became a mother. Every mother I’ve come across, all their children are gifted. None of their children have any issues. All their kids come home with straight A’s. And I’m like, “Well damn it — really?”
Lawrence: I made the film just before I got married. And then we had the pandemic. Two years later I’m pregnant, we go back and do the rest. It was the scariest thing in the whole world to think about starting a family. What if I screw up? What if I can’t do it? And I was so scared I was going to screw it up. And it was so interesting to make a film where I feel so scared and I feel that mirrored in Linsey.
Every day that I am a mother I feel terrible. I feel guilty. I’m playing with him and I’m like, ‘Is that what he wants to do? Should we be outside? We’re out. What if he’s cold? What if he gets sick? Should we be inside? is this enough Does this develop your brain enough?’
Davis: Jennifer, I locked my child in the car and it was freaking hot outside. I had 50 million things on my plate. My daughter was in the back. She’s happy and I’m so stressed about going to Target. I love Target. I get out of the car, close the door and realize I don’t have my keys. I threw myself on the concrete, Jennifer. I shouted. You’d think I was in a Greek tragedy. “My baby! Jesus!And then I saw these two men. I grabbed them by the necks and said, “My baby is in the car! My baby!” And then what do I have in my hand? My phone. The two men whose necks I grabbed said, “Ma’am, you just need to call 911.” And I said, “Oh, okay.” So I called 911 and kept yelling at the operator. Every expletive imaginable came out of my mouth.
They got her out of the car. And the reason I’m telling you this story is because it was literally seconds.
Lawrence: I was driving around with mine but didn’t realize it wasn’t buckled into the car seat. He was just swinging around, just flying. OK great! It’s good to know that we all almost killed our children.
Davis: I love my daughter more than anything. She is my life. Here it is.
Set design by Jack Flanagan
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